OpenC anyone????

[dhitchman]

Just started with a brand new clean install, never been used carbide, asked it to create me an open C project (using the instructions in the help) and then said 'build'. I kind of had an expectation that it would build - and - as the instructions suggested - would produce something that said 'hello open c' - a strange variation on hello world, but then my problems began...
First it couldn't find 'stdio.h', after some messing around, several times round the houses and many many frustrating hours of trying to work out why some screens display information you can't change I finally persuaded the system to add an include path to the include directory where stdio.h is to be found. Now stupidly I might have expected the 'wizard' to have done this automatically - a bit like that er strange redmond bunch manage?
Now I got to the next problem, it managed to compile having found stdio.h (so the two printf's and a getchar aren't too far wrong??) and it couldn't find some libraries. Strangely nor could I, but a little hacking later and I had deleted these from the 'must link' list, and I almost had linking - now all it needed was E32Main.
Now thoroughly disillusioned I was torn between knowing that E32Main is needed for Symbian apps and a thought that maybe there is some Open C library somewhere that should be included that I don't know about and that has an E32Main that calls the main the wizard carefully put in for me. Alas, with no help telling me which I just hacked the file to say E32Main not main. Hey presto a linked program!

Wonderful, time to relax and get a cuppa.

Then stupidly, and I mean really really stupidly I thought that running the program would work. Well, I pressed the 'run' button, the emulator crawled its way into existance (I mean, I really don't expect a dual core 3ghz machine to actually perform). Then nothing, not squat appeared on the screen, and the emulator disappeared - all of its own accord.
I added a break point, no difference, certainly no sign of stopping for a break.

So all in all, following the 'help' file instructions, using the 'wizard' and hoping to have an application that puts a simple text message on the screen is clearly something that requires considerably more time and effort than the 10 minutes I actually expected. Stupid stupid stupid me, I had actually thought that with all the protestations about S60 and Symbian being 'open for innovation' and 'the leading smartphone operating system' and all the associated crap that some one some where might actually have tested the 'developer' kit actually worked - I mean, stupid me, its obviously not important to have anyone actually provide an application that a user could download onto an apparently open operating system. No wonder so many people don't give a fig about the Symbian OS or S60 and buy whatever phone happens to be the prettiest.

I already hate the experience, I wonder how many days I will waste before doing my simple app on Windows mobile, or the iPhone, or Googles offering - because at least with them someone has bothered to make sure the basic developer tools work. And amazingly, windows mobile actually uses a developer tool I'm used to, not some hack of a hack of a piece of freeware that was lying around and considered good enough for us all because at least it wasn't tried and tested by millions of users.

[ltomuta]

I don't know how it happens that I never have problems installing the SDKs and building the apps. Experience counts of course, maybe luck as well ...

Which SDK have you installed? Does it have OpenC support or did you have to install the OpenC plug-in? With the right SDK setup building the example is a matter of a coupe of clicks.

Running the application might be a bit tricky. OpenC does not provide UI for your app and when running it it gets sent to background while the OS UI loads.

Since you are new to Symbian OS I suggest that jumping directly into OpenC is not a good idea. You should spend a couple of days with a Symbian C++ application, enough to learn the structure of a Symbian project, the type of binary and resource files are generated and where should they be installed on the phone. Basic stuff that will help you learn the tools and maybe set the expectations to the right level. After all, your starting to work with new tools and an whole new OS so of course there will be problems.

I'm starting my vacation now so I won't be able to help you (others will, I'm sure) but in time it would be great to hear more from you and your learning experience. Do send me an e-mail every now and then.

[dhitchman]

Sorry I know I sound really grumpy and bad tempered. At this stage I would expect to have had 6 days adding functionality instead of being on day 7 or a phone development and still not having something running on a phone.

Its:
Carbide 2.0 build 014
S60-SDK-200634-3[1].1-Cpp-f.1090b.zip
No idea if this is 'the right one', its what I was told to use, it offered open C (I think it was built in, but frankly I was letting the whole lot install as a background task to discussing the project - not busy making notes of every twist and turn).
Strangely enough I'm also pretty experienced, not admitedly with massive numbers of S60 applications, but I have fought Symbian before - from inside for a number of years (text shell mostly), I am also very experienced with C and C++ on a number of platforms. This is certainly the most frustrating one so far. Nothing, and pretty much nothing at all, seems to 'just work', at the moment I have finally managed to get a GUI example to wokr on the emulator (though for some stupid reason the emulator keeps deciding to 'switch the application off' - great apart from the fact I'm trying to use the damned thing), but now I want to put it on the phone - because the emulator can't pretend to have a camera, but now TRK on the phone thinks its connected, but carbide can't talk to it, the serial 'speed' on the pc wasn't correctly set as it apparently should be, but setting it didn't help, all you see is pings going form the pc and sod all coming back. To remind you, get an MS smartphone, connect that to the USB, open the demo app, it builds straight off, you press the 'debug on phone' button, it downloads, installs, opens, and debugs as if it were the emulator. All out of the box, all first time, all with no hassle at all. But then it appears the developers at Microsoft use their product, and therefore it works.

I know that carbide is used in Symbian, but most teams have switched reluctantly, and for most teams they aren't doing the sort of app development users here are trying.

I don't know how it happens that I never have problems installing the SDKs and building the apps. Experience counts of course, maybe luck as well ...

Which SDK have you installed? Does it have OpenC support or did you have to install the OpenC plug-in? With the right SDK setup building the example is a matter of a coupe of clicks.

Running the application might be a bit tricky. OpenC does not provide UI for your app and when running it it gets sent to background while the OS UI loads.

Since you are new to Symbian OS I suggest that jumping directly into OpenC is not a good idea. You should spend a couple of days with a Symbian C++ application, enough to learn the structure of a Symbian project, the type of binary and resource files are generated and where should they be installed on the phone. Basic stuff that will help you learn the tools and maybe set the expectations to the right level. After all, your starting to work with new tools and an whole new OS so of course there will be problems.

I'm starting my vacation now so I won't be able to help you (others will, I'm sure) but in time it would be great to hear more from you and your learning experience. Do send me an e-mail every now and then.

[ltomuta]

The SDK you use is S60 3rd Edition FP1 (aka S60 3.1) and it does not include OpenC support. If does however have (all Symbian OS releases had) a basic libc port with very few implemented/exported APIs and you can, with changes and patches make a hello world project work with it, but that is not what you are after.

What you need is the OpenC Plug-in and once this installed you should indeed expect that a newly created Open C project to work out of the box.

S60 3rd Edition FP2 contains already the Open C libraries but not the Open C++ port. Since S60 5th Edition you have them all, Open C and C++ included in the platform SDK

[dhitchman]

In which case why does it offer me the choice of an open C project when I ask it to create a new project, thats like asking a kid if he wants a bar of chocolate then giving him an empty wrapper.
Pointless and annoying.

Still, got to the next step now, I want to put a sis file on the phone because the debugger thats supposed to work doesn't, only to find that the developer environment on a dual core 3.ghz 256 mb machine can't fathom that the sis its making is less use than a chocolate fireguard and leaves that up to the S60 phone its targetted for. I'm rapidly becoming speechless about this.

The SDK you use is S60 3rd Edition FP1 (aka S60 3.1) and it does not include OpenC support. If does however have (all Symbian OS releases had) a basic libc port with very few implemented/exported APIs and you can, with changes and patches make a hello world project work with it, but that is not what you are after.

What you need is the OpenC Plug-in and once this installed you should indeed expect that a newly created Open C project to work out of the box.

S60 3rd Edition FP2 contains already the Open C libraries but not the Open C++ port. Since S60 5th Edition you have them all, Open C and C++ included in the platform SDK

[ltomuta]

In which case why does it offer me the choice of an open C project when I ask it to create a new project, thats like asking a kid if he wants a bar of chocolate then giving him an empty wrapper.
Pointless and annoying.

Carbide.c++'s templates can be defined as depended of a [range of] S60 SDK[s]. It is not possible (feature request?) to determine whether a given SDK has a given feature and thus whether a template should be available or not.

Still, got to the next step now, I want to put a sis file on the phone because the debugger thats supposed to work doesn't, only to find that the developer environment on a dual core 3.ghz 256 mb machine can't fathom that the sis its making is less use than a chocolate fireguard and leaves that up to the S60 phone its targetted for. I'm rapidly becoming speechless about this.

Not sure if I understand you correctly. The emulator does work once you understand what it does and how. I did ask at some point that makesis should be smarter and report some rather obvious errors at sis building time. However, some errors can only be detected at run time and thus there's no substitute for running it on the phone.

[dhitchman]

Carbide.c++'s templates can be defined as depended of a [range of] S60 SDK[s]. It is not possible (feature request?) to
determine whether a given SDK has a given feature and thus whether a template should be available or not.



Not sure if I understand you correctly. The emulator does work once you understand what it does and how. I did ask at some point that makesis should be smarter and report some rather obvious errors at sis building time. However, some errors can only be detected at run time and thus there's no substitute for running it on the phone.

Yes the emulator sort of works, but doesn't appear to have a camera (which I want for my application) so I am trying to debug on the phone. The phone has the TRK installed(3.0.8 - apparently api 3.4), this thinks its connected via the usb cable. Carbide on the other hand doesn't think the phone is connected so refuses to work. The usb does appear to work at least to the extent of getting nokia pc suite working, and yes I have exited that, and I am using the com port that is convienietly labelled with the phone.

[ltomuta]

Having the latest Carbide version (currently 2.0.2.25, see Help -> Software update) and TRK client (currently 3.0.9) is recommended. Then try again, following the guidance from the screencasts advertised in my signature.