Getting the location of a Nokia Series 60, N80 phone

[xgamerx]

Hello. I just joined this site and started developing for mobile phones. I am currently working with the series 60, N80 cell phone from Nokia. I am developing in Java using J2ME.

My task is to obtain the location of the phone in the most convenient way possible (for the user).

I have been using the JSR-179 Location API and I thought that it would solve my problems but it seems to require a bluetooth GPS device to even attempt to get a location. Obviously, having the user buy and connect a GPS device to the phone is not a very convenient method.

My employer instead says that the easiest way to obtain general location information is to use the cell tower ID of the phone to get a general idea of the location of the phone. This obviously wouldn't require any external bluetooth device.

The Location API for J2ME seems to support this method of determining location but in practice has been requiring me to connect a bluetooth GPS device before it will get a location (or qualified coordinates).

Let me ask this as simply as possible....

How can I determine the location (lat and long) of the N80 phone without the use of an external GPS device?

[petrib]

You can't determine the location (lat and long) of the N80 phone without the use of an external GPS device.

Even if you can get the cell ID (maybe not in Java, but from a C++ app), you would then have to know the latitude and longitude of that cell tower (and network operators do not tend to publish such info; actual physical coordinates of their base stations).

[xgamerx]

I suspected as much already. Just wanted to double check. Thanks for your help. Can anyone confirm that this is the case and there is no way to get the location of the N80 without an external GPS.

Also, assuming I did get the Cell ID, is there really no feasible way at all to get a location based on that ID? No one has any records available? I just want to make sure that even with the Cell ID that I would be unable to get the location of the phone.

Thanks in advance for anyone's help.

[petrib]

With just the cell ID you can get an approximate location, if you know the basestation coordinates and what direction the antenna points to and its sector width. However, having to cell ID is not enough to tell you how far from the basestation you are (it could be meters or kilometers depending on the situation).

There are apps like MiniGPS that rely on social networks to figure out what cells are and where, but that's not something to rely upon.

If you want accurate positioning, for network based positioning cooperate with the operator (for relatively accurate location that is not just based on the cell ID), or use a real GPS receiver.

[xgamerx]

It sounds like if I want to be able to get the rough position of my phone (emphasis on rough) without the use of an external GPS receiver that Cell ID is my best bet then?

Can anyone show me the easiest way to get Cell ID and use that information in my java program. I know that the cell id can only be retrieved in c++ but can anyone shed some light on how I could get this information to my java midlet? [Place Labs (http://www.placelab.org/) looks pretty close to what I want but their SIS file doesn't work on the N80]

[petrib]

Search for "midpjni" for tips on how to get a C++ app talking to a Java MIDlet.

However, as I said, with just the cell ID, you can't get even a rough position, unless you know where the cell is (the ID does not necessarily encode any useful information regarding its coordinates).

[xgamerx]

Ok thanks for that. I understand that cell id doesn't translate directly to location. However, cell id does provide a "context" of location. meaning that it is roughly repeatable (i.e if the cell id is the same twice, someone is likely in the same rough location). This is what we need.

Can someone please, please point me in the direction of code for a phone in c++ or c that can determine the cell id for a phone.

[juarezjunior]

Hi xgamerx,

Why don't you consider using a device with built-in GPS? There is a new S60 (not Series 40) device, Nokia 6110 Navigator, that may help.

http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/6110_Navigator

Kind regards,

[petrib]

juarezjunior, The 6110 Navigator is an S60 3rd Ed. FP1 device (not S40) & that's also stated on the page you link to.

Other models with built-in GPS: N95, E90.

xgamerx, as to getting cell ID info; try searching:
http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/search.php
http://codesearch.google.com/

[juarezjunior]

Hi Petrib,

Thank you, I was really mistaken

Br,

[isolated]

Hi there,
Has anyone tried to make placelab work on N80 nokia?

Or maybe there is some similar project?

[hartti]

I think Placelab Symban part has to be recompiled and rebuilt for S60 3rd Edition devices. Otherwise it should work just fine (hmmm... except that I do not know which capabilities are needed for the native app to read the CellID...).

Hartti

[sgreenhill]

Hi xgamerx,

You may be able to get location information via your network provider. One of the local providers here offers a service called "Mobile Location Manager": http://www.telstra.com.au/business/p...ionmanager.htm

This basically gives you a TCP/IP based API that will locate ANY phone on that network. Its done via the cell-phone towers and is therefore more approximate than GPS. Depending on the cell geometry, its usually accurate to within a few hundred meters.

You need to be authorised by the phone's owner, but once this is done you can get the position at any time. There is a small fee per position fix. An advantage of a solution like this is that it requires no special software to be running on the phone itself.