Nokia communication - CEO news

[droopyar]

Hi,

I am reading so many rumors and wrong information on internet about Symbian development, that i would like if Elop or any Nokia Director gives an official statement to confirm whats the situation.

Symbian sales are very good in Asia and South America (nokia is top1 in the market thanks to symbian), that i would appreciate if any Director clarify the upcoming updates and releases for this platform.

Nokia 808 PureView is a very attactive product, and sales and marketing would be great if Elop support the platform also (OFFICIALLY).

I know Elop is mainly focus on windowsphones, but sales are not good worldwide. As competition is very aggresive (android, iphone), it is important to have a clear communication to the market and developers.

Rumors are mainly produced by the competition to kill symbian and kill nokia as first manufacturer. So, i think Elop as CEO and NOKIA must have a good communication in advance. Customers reads in blogs, forum, etc many wrong information due to not any official statement.

Come on Nokia, start offering good communication for future developments, or customers will move to other platforms.

Elop says that due to the aggressive market, sales are low. I could assure and guarantee that problem is from NOKIA inside, not from the market.

Come on Nokia, i love Nokia, 10 years user of Nokia phones. But your lack of information affect your reputation.

Stockholders are also confused.

[petrib]

Hi,
Symbian sales are very good in Asia and South America (nokia is top1 in the market thanks to symbian)

Nokia's sales doesn't seem quite like being very good even in those regions:

http://www.results.nokia.com/results...lts2012Q1e.pdf

Device net sales:
Asia-Pacific sales -28% Year-on-Year (Jan-Mar 2012 vs. Jan-Mar 2011), -27% Quarter-on-Quarter (Jan-Mar 2012 vs. Oct-Dec 2011).
China sales -70% YoY, -43% QoQ.
Latin Ameria sales -3% YoY (not too bad a drop, actually, compared to other parts of the world), but still -17% QoQ (and 2012 will be worse than what 2011 was).

Device volumes:
Asia-Pacific devices -4% YoY, 17% QoQ
China -62% YoY, -37% QoQ
Latin America -9% YoY, -23% QoQ


In any case, what information do you feel you lack?

Official sources/announcement on:

http://www.nokia.com/global/about-nokia/investors/
http://press.nokia.com/
http://conversations.nokia.com/ (to some degree)

Symbian development is being ramped down, as is - naturally - the introduction of new Symbian based models. Nokia has said so. There is no doubt about that. What Nokia did not anticipate (or admit publicly) was the speed of how fast the world abandoned Symbian after they said they would do so.

Same for MeeGo; just as dead/abandoned and never really had the chance to take off, because Nokia relegated it from being the next high-end platform to supercede Symbian to a "special project" and with only one device launched. That's also been clearly communicated and a done deal.

Nokia has also clearly stated that they're putting all their smartphone focus on Windows Phone. Nothing unclear about that, either. The mistake was in announcing that Symbian and MeeGo would be ramped down almost a year before they managed to have the first Windows Phone models ready. Doing so, accelerated the market and developers abandoning Symbian faster.

Series 40 goes on for the time being. Nokia has hinted at that Qt will live on (which means that as Symbian or MeeGo won't, they'd have to do it some other way, if it is going to happen). Allthough, the PC (Windows, Mac, Linux) responsibilities related to Qt,Nokia has divested to Digia.

So, for developers:
- For Series 40, keep doing Java or web apps
- For as long as Symbian (and MeeGo) is still around to some degree, concentrate on Qt, as it may pay off later on some new Nokia low-end platform (for some, might even be worth initiating new Qt app development), use Symbian C++ only if you must
- For smartphones, go Microsoft (C#, Visual Basic), and HTML5/JavaScript
- If you're already a Flash Lite developer, you can keep using it for Series 40 and Symbian devices where Flash Lite will still be shipped for as long as they're being sold

[droopyar]

@petrib

Thanks for your comments. I agree that Nokia make a very bad movement to announce a change on their strategy 1 year before they have the windowsphone ready.

But, i still do not understand which will be de benefit of using a Nokia windowsphone against a samsung, HTC or a low price chinese manufacturer running the same OS. Really, Nokia will suffer from the same error as nowadays PC do. Windows is the OS and manufacturers are having a great competition and most of them die. Survivers are OEM small companies that produce hardware parts.

Look whats samsung is doing. They produce android devices, but keep updating BADA and TIZEN, in case android is death in the future. They have something in hands.

QT is really a problem, it is not compatible really with other OS, android QT is not good, etc. i think QT was a good idea, but difficult to implement. Not good.

What i could suggest to Nokia developers, is to do some sort of emulators. For example, symbian could be easily done to support android apk running in the platform. So, symbian could eat android apk.

Problem for Nokia is the wrong communication of their marketing team. If nokia updates frecuently symbian and adds some innovations (face recognition, some emulators, etc.) could be top1 again.
Also, there are some small applications from developers out there that Nokia could add them in their official release. Just pay that developer and take the code.

I have seen a small tool that could transform all voices to notes online (like an advance SIRI device from iphone), some tools like face wrap or transformations etc.

Nokia be more smart, check small developers tools with good attraction, and include them in the firmware, this will be a very good innovation. Ideas and software are ready, just needs a brain in nokia to organize it.

[petrib]

@petrib
But, i still do not understand which will be de benefit of using a Nokia windowsphone against a samsung, HTC or a low price chinese manufacturer running the same OS.

Nokia is more or less the only remaining Windows Phone manufacturer.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23503312

According to the above, in Q1, about 3.3 million Windows Phone phones shipped. Nokia said it sold over 2M Lumias in Q1 (let's say 2.1). That leaves that all the other manufacturers combined sold only 1.2M, and I bet that the IDC numbers include also Windows Mobile/Windows CE devices.

(Interestingly enough, Nokia - more or less, the only remaining Symbian based device manufacturer - also, according to IDC above, sold 10.4M Symbian phones in Q1 this year, 5 times more than WP sales, and 26.4M the year before, over 10 times more than WP sales this year, in the quarter where the company announced it'd be replaced with Windows Phone.)

[droopyar]

@petrib

Yes, i see the figures. We could notice that symbian declination is due to no new phones on market. This will be revert for sure with New 808 PureView, pre-sales worldwide is high.

Windowsphones grow will be very very small, as other manufacturers are not interested in supporting it, due to low sales. Nokia could be the next titanic in the mobile market if they focus on windowsphones alone. The iceberg is coming...

A good idea, is to keep supporting symbian (more phones and more upgrades on firmware) this could revert low sales. Stockholders are waiting it.

[petrib]

A good idea, is to keep supporting symbian (more phones and more upgrades on firmware) this could revert low sales. Stockholders are waiting it.

If the stockholders did not like the new Nokia strategy, they've already had two annual stockholder meetings (May 2012 and May 2011) where they could have expressed their dislike towards the strategy by voting. In both meetings, the board and CEO were allowed to continue on the current path (small stockholder expressed their concerns, but those in control of the company voted for the board's and CEO's plans and continuance, not against). Of course, the other way that stockholders (the market) have shown how much they believe in the company is by looking at the Nokia share price.

You are counting on too much uplift based on the 808 PureView; it is an expensive, niche product, which, besides the exceptional camera, is based on old, single-CPU hardware, low-resolution (by today's standards) display, and plastic-looking not-so-attractive design. It might sell a few million units for the camera, but Nokia needs 20 smarthphone models that sell a few million, and one or two that sells tens of millions. (E.g., the reports are that Samsung has over 9M of the new Galaxy S 3 model preordered before it is even in the shops.)

And I repeat what I've told you before here: Nokia doesn't really have many people left working on Symbian any longer, in any capacity, and even Accenture, where Nokia outsourced most of the Symbian people, have lost or let go most of them. There will never be an dual-core or quad-core Symbian models released by Nokia. There will not be any high-resolution display models released by Nokia. There will not be any major feature or UI upgrades of Symbian for existing models. There will not be too many more Symbian models released in the first place (maybe a handful still, but that's where it ends). And Nokia will never make the huge investements required to rebuild the Symbian expertise/organization or phone development programs and projects.

Of course, you can keep rooting for Symbian and hoping things will turn around, but it is an uphill battle where the hill is really, really steep (more like an upright wall of very slippery rock).

[droopyar]

@petrib

Yes, samsung sells good as they keep launching phones and have a strategy. Nokia moves to the worst OS in the mobile scene called windowsphone (1% of market share). To increase it, will take too much time and money and persuade the consumers to change their low price android phones to windowsphone (very difficult really). Moreover samsung will release their own windowsphone soon, so Nokia will be one more, just another seller. I think Elop make a terrible mistake and market will show you that in the following months.

I even have a samsung I9003L running android, and it is a very basic phone, OS is like a "wife" phone, not a smartphone. Gingerbread and IC4 are almost the same with just few changes on the GUI.

As i told you, problem is from Nokia marketing team and CEO, that do not follow their customers aims. Now, technology moves to larger screens 4", and INNOVATION. Thats how google sells, INNOVATION.
They put a obsolete face recognition to unlock the phone, and people say: wowww thats amazing. Or like iphone: SIRI recognize your voices!! wwwowoww. Both arevery old technologies, but marketing team works with them OK.

Nokia now has PureView wowoow technology. I know it is an expensive phone, but offering this with a continuos update will be the best choice. Like releasing FP1, FP2, FP3 for belle with INNOVATION.

[joaocardoso]

@petrib

Yes, samsung sells good as they keep launching phones and have a strategy. Nokia moves to the worst OS in the mobile scene called windowsphone (1% of market share). To increase it, will take too much time and money and persuade the consumers to change their low price android phones to windowsphone (very difficult really). Moreover samsung will release their own windowsphone soon, so Nokia will be one more, just another seller. I think Elop make a terrible mistake and market will show you that in the following months.

I even have a samsung I9003L running android, and it is a very basic phone, OS is like a "wife" phone, not a smartphone. Gingerbread and IC4 are almost the same with just few changes on the GUI.

As i told you, problem is from Nokia marketing team and CEO, that do not follow their customers aims. Now, technology moves to larger screens 4", and INNOVATION. Thats how google sells, INNOVATION.
They put a obsolete face recognition to unlock the phone, and people say: wowww thats amazing. Or like iphone: SIRI recognize your voices!! wwwowoww. Both arevery old technologies, but marketing team works with them OK.

Nokia now has PureView wowoow technology. I know it is an expensive phone, but offering this with a continuos update will be the best choice. Like releasing FP1, FP2, FP3 for belle with INNOVATION.

It seems to me that you consider Android a better OS than Windows Phone. You are wrong. Either that of you never compared an Android devices with other OS's.

I've used Android devices before. In fact before android I used Windows Mobile 6.1 so it was easy for me to love Android over Microsoft mobile OS. Then it came windows phone and I was skeptical. Then I started to use a windows phone (first an LG e900 and then a Lumia 800), and I can assure you that I will not go back to Android any time soon.

Android is a sluggish OS that requires dual and quad core processors and powerful GPU's to be as fluid or as pleasant to use as a Nokia Lumia 800 that is a single core device. I never had a crash and I never had an app that gets jumpy and slow as I did with android. Worst than that is the fact that Android devices don't get updates as we do with Windows Phone. Its either the brands or the carriers that block updates and when you get nan Android device the most plausible outcome is to have an obsulete device after 6 months. Sure some brands do offer updates... but only recently we started to see that happen more, and I suspect that it was because they where afraid of loosing customers due to the increasingly fragmentation. I still dont trust any device maker when they say they will release updates for Android. I had a bad experience with HTC.

And dont get me started on how you need to install and antivirus on android devices, something that ironically you dont need on Windows Phone.

Finally I dont know if you know but Microsoft probably earns more money from Android devices than Google. Every singe Android device sold from many brands pays a license fee to Microsoft for licensed Patents.

Nokia could have gone the Android route and then be just one more player on the already over saturated android devices market. They decidef to have a different approach with MS. They partned with MS and invested heavily on Windows Phone. Since Nokia started to sell WP devices, the share has increased constantly and it will continue to rise. In China Windows Phone already surpassed iPhone sales, if you like to talk about numbers.

Android is a great OS (in some aspects) but it lacks consistency, its over-fragmented, full of malaware, and requites top end hardware to be as smooth as any windows phone device. And lets face it. There are no Android devices that are as elegant and well built as the Lumia range, especially L800 and L900.

[droopyar]

@cardoso

You says that there are many manufacturers of android phones. Sooner will be very low price sellers of windowsphones also. Any chinese small factory ZTE, etc. or samsung or HTC.
So, Nokia will suffer from a terrible aggresive competition also. In order to survive, you have to be unique.

Nokia has now a very secure and stable OS called symbian. Moving to windowsphone is still very premature. Nokia has recently issue a 100 USD refund on USA due to software crachsed and glitches. Just read about it.

Moreover, WP7.5 is very obsolete and limited, thats why microsoft is working hard to release WP8 before customers complains worldwide due to their "wife" smartphone.

Market has always the final word.

[joaocardoso]

@cardoso

You says that there are many manufacturers of android phones. Sooner will be very low price sellers of windowsphones also. Any chinese small factory ZTE, etc. or samsung or HTC.
So, Nokia will suffer from a terrible aggresive competition also. In order to survive, you have to be unique.

Nokia has now a very secure and stable OS called symbian. Moving to windowsphone is still very premature. Nokia has recently issue a 100 USD refund on USA due to software crachsed and glitches. Just read about it.

Moreover, WP7.5 is very obsolete and limited, thats why microsoft is working hard to release WP8 before customers complains worldwide due to their "wife" smartphone.

Market has always the final word.

Nokia is making a difference by investing in amazing apps that no one else has. Nokia Music, Nokia Drive, Nokia Transport, Nokia TV, just to name a few.

Plus to that Nokia has in my opinion the best hardware.

Combining the best hardware with exclusive apps will make Nokia a unique player on the Windows Phone ecosystem.

Anyone that uses windows phone, coming from Android or iPhone, says the same. Great looking smooth OS, responsive and intuitive. Nokia hardware is winning reviews all over the place with great screen, great design and quality. Even dough when it comes to specs its not as high as many android devices or iphone, everyone recognizes that this fact does not prevent the devices form being as fast or faster. The only single argument that still may be preventing windows phone, and Nokia, is the perception that Windows Phone does not have many apps. Well... by now its well over 80000 and its also up to us developers to take the opportunity to invest on a growing market and port existent apps and create new ones.

And if rumors are true regarding native c++ support, with windows phone 8, porting apps its going to be much easier.

Stating that windows phone 7.5 is limited, can only be said by someone that does not use it. Not sure if thats the case. It its not, sorry for the assumption.

I use it and I dont feel the need to go back to Android. In fact going back from Windows Phone to Android would be a major step back for me. And I would say the same regarding Symbian. Not that Android or Symbian are bad in any way. Its just that the experience of using a windows phone is much better. And a good experience is what the market is looking for. Not technical geeky stuff.

[petrib]

Plus to that Nokia has in my opinion the best hardware.

Current Lumia's are Compal hardware in Nokia-designed covers. We have yet to see WP phone from Nokia with actual Nokia-designed hardware.

Stating that windows phone 7.5 is limited, can only be said by someone that does not use it. Not sure if thats the case. It its not, sorry for the assumption.

Stating that Windows Phone 7.5 is not limited, can only be said by someone who doesn't really know Symbian, maemo/MeeGo, or Android. I'm sure that is the case .

[joaocardoso]

Stating that Windows Phone 7.5 is not limited, can only be said by someone who doesn't really know Symbian, maemo/MeeGo, or Android. I'm sure that is the case .

In that case please do tell me. From a user perspective what is missing on windows phone that would be important to have (from an OS prespective, not from an APP prespective of course)? That feedback is very important to share and put on the right places. For the simple reason that Nokia will not be moving away from Windows Phone. You either accept it as it is or you try to do your part on improving it by providing feedback. Your choice

here you go: http://windowsphone.uservoice.com/fo...re-suggestions

By the way, I used Android for over a year. Not going back. Symbian I dont use for a long time, I confess, but the numbers and the decision from Nokia to adppt anothe smartphone OS tells me that something was not working. Either technically or user acceptance, when comparing with iPhone and Android.

[TongMuan]

In that case please do tell me. From a user perspective what is missing on windows phone that would be important to have

- Proper Skype app (3rd party applications aren't allowed to run in the background)
- Angry Birds Space (no native code support -> difficult to re-use existing code from other platforms)

[petrib]

In that case please do tell me. From a user perspective what is missing on windows phone that would be important to have.

A couple of things that are missing just off the top of my head (I have a Lumia 800):

Apps that can run/execute in the background (track GPS position, use accelerometer, do file transfer, whatever).
USB mass storage support (local file transfer)
Larger than 100MB files on SkyDrive
Set ringtones to any audio file (any length)
Application installations from any source
Lock screen orientation

And for developers, at least: Support for "native" C/C++ code (hoping WP8 will really lift this restriction).

I'm pretty sure that every one of these and more is already known to Microsoft, and some will not change no matter how much people petition for them.

Nokia will not be moving away from Windows Phone. You either accept it as it is or you try to do your part on improving it

I've been trying to say to people asking Nokia to revive Symbian, maemo, MeeGo, or to adopt Android, instead, that it is not going to happen. Nokia is not going back (it is sink or swim with WP for the company; unfortunately at the moment, it seems like desperately trying to stay afloat - after jumping off the burning platform - more than swimming).

[duncan.waugh]

I went from N97 Mini -> WP7 and found it so limited I could only bear to use it for a few months before switching back to S60 5th edition. Eventually I saved up enough to buy a 701 (still stuck on the WP7 contract for sometime) and I couldn't be happier with it. The APIs on WP7 are quite limited compared to the likes of Symbian and Android, a problem, completely separate from the non-native code issue, that can seriously limit what applications are possible on it. Sure it has a flashy, stylistic UI but the transitions actually hide the fact that it's slower to do most tasks on WP7 than it is on the competition. The fact that Android supports SMP isn't a crutch either, I don't know how they're working with it internally but SMP can be a very useful tool for extending a device's battery life. Given there's a Qt baseport for Android and not for WP7 the upgrade path for a lot of Symbian developers seems pretty clear at this moment in time unless as others have mentioned WP8 turns this around.